Rector’s Cupboard Podcast

Decline as the Hope of the Church with Dr. Andrew Root

In the United States and elsewhere, including Canada, large numbers of people are leaving church. A recent book, The Great Dechurching, points out that the movement is the largest religious cultural shift in American history. Many writers, professors, and observers have often used the word “decline” to talk about such a phenomenon. The truth is more nuanced. The church is not in decline in much of the world and where it is declining in numbers, North America, etc. there is perhaps much more to the story.
What if the decline of the church is a good thing for faith and the church?
We talk to Dr. Andrew Root about his recent book, Churches and the Crisis of Decline, and how recent and ongoing decline in church attendance might point to something positive. As Root says, the church is more properly the narrator not the star. He argues for a better view of faith in which faith is lived in the world, rather than in opposition to the world. Root mentions that, so often, God is caged into religion and that the changes in the church, that so many see as threatening, are an opportunity to embrace a healthier view of faith.
We found, in reading Andrew’s books and in speaking with him, an enlivening way of seeing and living faith that many people who have pushed away from church will likely experience as hopeful and engaging.
One term to mention; a good portion of Andrew Root’s writing touches on the work of Charles Taylor and his book, A Secular Age. That book asks one question, Why was it virtually impossible to not believe in God 500 years ago and yet in contemporary western culture it has turned the other way around, to where it is much more difficult for people to believe in God? One of the central terms in Taylor’s book is “The Immanent Frame.” The idea here is that the frame of a person’s worldview, the way they saw the world and their place in it, used to be defined by a sense of the transcendent, by a belief in God. Now, even for most people who count themselves as religious, the frame has become immanent, that is, bounded mostly by the scientifically observable and material.
For more of Andrew Root’s work you can check out his website and his work with Homebrewed Christianity.
 
Books and Articles Referenced:
The Weariness of the Self  - Alain Ehrenberg
Bittersweet - Susan Cain
“The Largest and Fastest Religious Shift in America Is Well Underway” - New York Times, June 21, 2023

Sinners In the Hands of a Loving God with Brian Zahnd

Rector’s Cupboard is pleased to welcome Brian Zahnd. Brian is the founder and lead pastor of Word of Life Church in Saint Joseph, Missouri.
Brian has been somewhat of a trailblazer in contemporary expressions of hopeful theology. His books, including Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God and Beauty Will Save the World, outline a thoughtful, positive, and beautiful understanding of Christian faith and belief. Brian’s work has informed the work of Rector’s Cupboard and Reflector Project. As our reach has grown, we have consistently encountered people who have been helped by Brian’s writing.
We were pleased, in this episode, to include a couple of friends we’ve met through our work who have also followed Brian’s work. Neil and Peter start the conversation with Brian by opening up some of their key questions.
Brian is one of those writers and speakers that people who hold rigid and fearful understandings of faith sometimes warn you about. One of the problems for such accusations is that Brian knows his stuff. He opens a consideration of the history of Christian faith and theology and of Biblical interpretation in a way that shows us how, often, the fearful or divisive ways we have understood theology and the Bible are the distortions, not the life-giving truth.
Brian does this in a way that is direct, but not accusatory, thoughtful, but understandable and relatable.
Enjoy the episode.
Tasting Notes:
Our tasting for this episode comes all the way from Lviv, Ukraine. Piana Vyshnia, or Drunk Cherry in English, is a not too sweet cherry liqueur that we would highly recommend, if you can find it. 

Interfaith Dialogue with The Interfaith Amigos

In some religious circles, dialogue or collaboration with people of other faiths is seen as dangerous. In some evangelical contexts, such interfaith consideration may even have been labelled as faithless.
Hopeful Christian theology sees interfaith dialogue as faithful, not faithless. True interfaith dialogue is neither dangerous nor insipid. Rather, in building connections with people of other faiths we can grow in our own faith and have positive impact in the world.
In this episode, we speak with a Minister, an Imam and a Rabbi. Pastor Don Mackenzie, Rabbi Laura Duhan-Kaplan, and Imam Jamal Rahman are called The Interfaith Amigos and their work has been featured in Ted Talks and presentations around the world.
We had the joy of speaking with Rabbi Laura previously in March of 2021. You can find that conversation here. 
For more information on The Interfaith Amigos, check out Imam Jamal’s website. 
Books and Resources references in this episode:
Finding Peace Through Spiritual Practice by The Interfaith Amigos, 2016
Charter for Compassion

Shattered with Arthur Boers

Ram Dass once famously said, “If you think you are enlightened, go spend a week with your family.” We came across this quote when David Hayward, known as NakedPastor, quoted it after seeing his own family.
Arthur Boers, our guest on this episode of Rector’s Cupboard, delves deeper into the truth of family of origin than even a week together can afford. Boers’ faith matters a great deal to him. In fact, it has come to define much of his career as he has been a pastor, a professor, and a writer.In Shattered: A Son Picks up the Pieces of His Father’s Rage, Boers tells his story of growing up in the Christian Reformed Church in Ontario, Canada. He speaks of the violence present in the culture at the time, even within families like his own. He speaks of what it can look like to grow in faith, in an awareness of the transcendent and of the grace of God, even as the places where he first encountered such faith can also convey fear and violence. We are pleased to speak with Arthur because his book is really good. More than that, we are pleased to speak with Arthur because his story can help us in consideration of our stories. You have likely struggled with some painful things from your own family of origin. We hope that, though some parts may be difficult to hear, Arthur’s story may be part of you growing in strength and hope.
Arthur will be in the Vancouver area July 13 and 14 to speak about his book and memoir writing. Click here for details on these and other events of his across Canada.

Sexvangelicals Part 2

The second part of our interview with Julia and Jeremiah, sex therapists and hosts of the podcast Sexvangelicals. If you haven’t listened to part one, we encourage you to go back and listen to that before this episode.
In this episode, we spoke with Julia and Jeremiah about how we got to the place where conversations around sexuality are framed around morality and behaviours and some ways of dealing with the grief of what has been lost or damaged. We also got a list of resources for those wanting to learn more or look into counselling.
We are grateful to Ken Best, our occasional co-host, who joined us for this interview.
It was an enjoyable, honest and open conversation. Given that the topic is sex you will likely hear things that upset or offend you, no matter where you are on the spectrum of religious/non-religious. After all, sex therapy is unafraid to delve into some topics and questions that are often left unaddressed.
 
Resources
Books
Peggy Kleinplatz – Magnificent Sex
Doug Brown Harvey – Treating Out of Control Sexual Behavior
Beverley Dale - Advancing Sexual Health for the Christian Client
Nadia Bolz-Weber – Shameless
Linda Kay Klein – Pure
Dr. Wednesday Martin
 
Therapy Resources
The Incarnation Institute for Sex and Faith - Online Resources 
AASECT (American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists) - An online database for finding certified therapists in your area, both in the United States and Canada

Sexvangelicals Part 1

In a previous episode of Rector’s Cupboard we were pleased to interview Linda Kay Klein, author of the book Pure on purity culture within the evangelical church. Through Linda, our guests for this episode found Rector’s Cupboard and connected with us. Julia and Jeremiah are sex therapists who work often with people who were raised in high control religious environments. They are also the hosts of the podcast Sexvangelicals. We are grateful to welcome occasional co-host Ken Best for this episode and the next as the conversation went so well that we split it into two episodes. We talk about common assumptions around sexuality in church culture. We consider what the term “value-based” means. We unpack some of the potential damage from various fundamentalist (both religious and otherwise) frameworks of sexual health. It was an enjoyable, honest and open conversation. Given that the topic is sex you will likely hear things that upset or offend you, no matter where you are on the spectrum of religious/non-religious. After all, sex therapy is unafraid to delve into some topics and questions that are often left unaddressed.
The article discussed in the banter on today's episode is "The Hounding of Kate Forbes Shows Godless Squad Have Won," February 23, 2023  

Who the Heck is Karl Barth? with Dr. Marty Folsom

Rector’s Cupboard is part of a larger non-profit that exists to articulate Hopeful Theology. A theologian whose work informs our perspective is Karl Barth. 
This episode delves into the theology of Barth by way of the work of Dr. Marty Folsom. Barth’s writing is extensive, with his major work, “Church Dogmatics” consisting of over 9,000 pages over multiple volumes.  
Many Christians have pushed away from rigid and divisive understandings of faith. Some of those who have “deconstructed” their faith hang onto a desire for a meaningful more hopeful Christian faith. Barth’s theology, while outlined decades ago, provides such a frame. Barth was known as “the cheerful theologian” and his theology gives what we think is a much healthier view of the Bible, salvation, belief and non-belief than we have often encountered in evangelicalism. 
As Barth’s writing is extensive, it helps to have informed guides. Marty Folsom fits the bill. We talk about his book, “Karl Barth’s Church Dogmatics for Everyone: volume 1”. Dr. Folsom does not imply any advanced knowledge of Barth and guides us through even the basic structure of the dogmatics and some of the most important terms.  
Everyone has a theology, a way of understanding the bigger things of life and the world. Barth offers a hopeful Christian theology that can contribute much to the necessary theological renewal of the church.  
The episode opens with Rector’s Cupboard hosts speaking about why Barth’s theology might matter today. 

Neoliberal Religion with Dr. Mathew Guest

If you have been raised in a religious context, you may assume that the way your church, your denomination, conceived of faith was and is the very definition of faith. Obviously, there is a lot that impacts what we believe and how we practice and express that belief.
Dr. Mathew Guest helpfully describes how a particular way of seeing the world (neo-liberalism that defines much of politics and economics in our world) has come to impact religion in general and Christian faith in the west in particular. As many people who grew up in the church look towards a more hopeful understanding of faith, the disentangling of worldview and religion can prove to be a key part of moving forward. Perhaps what you were told you had to believe to even be considered a Christian had more to do with power and culture than it had to do with faith.
Our conversation with Dr. Guest focused on his book Neoliberal Religion: Faith and Power in the Twenty-First Century. You can also read his recent article “The New Spirit of Capitalism: How neoliberalism has changed the way we do religion,” published November 2022.
This episode has a lot of terms, some coined by Dr. Guest, so we thought it would be helpful to add some definitions.
Episode Terminology:
Neoliberalism: Neo-Liberalism can be seen as a perspective on politics and economics that assumes some key things. Firstly, there is a heightened individualism, the sense that value and virtue are conceived as aligning with the individual and individual rights and identity. Secondly, there is marketization, the way of seeing that ascribes value to that which is successful or popular in the marketplace of ideas, views and goods. Finally, there is a commodification of society and life. People, agencies and ideas are seen to have value in how they can be evaluated as a commodity. Neo-Liberalism as a political concept has led to fulsome ideas of freedom, autonomy and identity. At its best, it can reveal coercion and groupthink. However, there are also neutral and negative ways in which neo-liberalism impacts everything from social life to work life to spirituality and religion.
Marketization: The idea that religion functions best as a market. So, the religions or churches that attract the most people, are the best. Churches and religions come to be seen as competing for a market. (Mathew thinks it’s more complicated than that) Marketization also impacts notions of spiritual and moral success for groups and for individuals.
Populism: This is a form of political identity that rests on an idea of “the people.” Populism eventually bypasses elections, and claims to voice what the real people want. Characterized by a kind of rhetoric, typically from one leader who claims a special connection to the people, even though they may be part of the elite. Populism often assumes there is a corrupt elite getting in the way of the people getting what they want. We can see how, in our current social and political culture, populism becomes aligned with and uses religion.
Post-Truth Thinking: The idea that the powers that be are hiding things. You get conspiracy theories, the X Files, etc. It has escalated recently through the activities of public figures who have disregarded what may previously been thought to be unassailable traditions or truths. This can include the thought that key to Christian practice is a rejection of the world. In some expressions of church, there has been a very present critique of “the world” in saying that the world is not interested in truth. It is curious how this tendency has often existed alongside a willingness for fantastical belief or the propagation of conspiracy theories.
Securitization: An assumption, at a policy level, that conceives of some religions as more suspicious than others. People and groups who can be characterized as “the other” are identified as forces from which we need security. This leads to a stigmatization of people who look different, or believe differently as dangerous. Thus, intense Christian faith, for example, can be seen as virtuous while intense Islamic faith is portrayed as threatening.
Cosmeticization: The ways in which particular kinds of Christianity foreground the drive for polished perfectionism as a way of measuring success. Things viewed as successful in these religious circles resemble advertising or celebrities. The celebration of the cosmetic overcomes traditional depth or thought or interior life.

The Pilgrimage of Philanthropy with Mark Petersen

Rich or poor or somewhere in-between, our sense of security and identity can often have to do with money. Who we are, how we relate to others, and how we feel about our well-being is impacted, for good or ill, by whether we feel we have enough money.  
Mark Petersen has lived much of his life in the world of money and philanthropy. He has also taken up multiple spiritual pilgrimages as a way of asking the big questions of identity and meaning.  
We are pleased to speak with Mark about his experience with his family foundation, his journey on the Camino (you can find his blog about his Camino pilgrimages here) , and his thoughts about charity and fundraising. 
Mark has written a book relating the world of philanthropy to the journey on the trail. It is called Love Giving Well and it offers insight into what compels people to give and how decisions about giving are often made. 

Change in Church and Community with Tim Dickau

We are pleased to be joined by Tim Dickau of CityGate and The Centre for Missional Leadership. He is also the author of Forming Christian Community in a Secular Age.
Tim speaks with us about his vision for how faith and church should be blessing in the world. Tim was pastor of Grandview Calvary in Vancouver for many years and has helped facilitate numerous community projects addressing needs around housing and other areas of need.
Tim offers thoughtful considerations of hopeful ways forward for faith and church.