Rector’s Cupboard Podcast

"Money, Lies, and God" with Katherine Stewart

In the 20th chapter of the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus tells His followers what power is like in the kingdom of God. He says that real greatness is servanthood and that we ought not aim to “lord it over” others.
There is a movement in the United States, and in many countries around the world, that apparently utterly rejects Jesus’ way of power. This movement, called Christian nationalism, is a parasite upon Christian faith that is proudly taking up a crusade against anything and anyone deemed as opposition or enemy. Though it uses the language of faith, it is not about faith. It is about the accumulation of power. Donald Trump is held up by Christian nationalists. Vladimir Putin argues that the invasion of Ukraine is an exercise of upholding Christian values against ungodly enemies. We are of the opinion that many well-meaning Christians have fallen into listening to voices of Christian nationalism.
Christian nationalism is perhaps the biggest present threat to democracy. Christian nationalism is not Christian. It is a form of idolatry, a worship of power. We are not alone, at Rector’s Cupboard, in feeling that if we want to speak a hopeful faith, a faith that reflects the love of God in Jesus for all the world, then we will speak against Christian nationalism.
We are pleased to welcome back to Rector’s Cupboard Katherine Stewart to speak about her new book, Money, Lies, and God. The book has just been released this week. We were privileged to read it before publication and spoke with Katherine early in January. Money, Lies, and God is a frightening book to read as it describes real threats to democracy. There is hope and humour in it as well as Katherine Stewart tells us about her interactions with Christians who hold a hopeful faith and as she narrates visits to many religious and political rallies.
Katherine’s previous book, The Power Worshippers was adapted into a documentary by Rob Reiner. It is called God and Country and is available through Apple TV and other platforms.
Having interviewed Katherine about two of her books, we are pleased to welcome her for an in-person event in Vancouver on April 28. Details will be available on our website and the Rector’s Cupboard social pages so keep an eye out for registration details coming soon.
 
Terms Referenced:
There are a lot of terms, institutions, and people mentioned in our conversation with Katherine Stewart. You may want to avail yourself of some googling, but we have put together a short glossary to help with listening.
Pluralism – The idea that people who are different in belief, life style, etc can coexist in a society peacefully.
Sectarian – Usually divisive ideology based on political or religious difference. It is typically expressed in hard line stances and by an unwillingness to work with or tolerate differing opinions
Kleptocracy – A form of government structure in which leaders use political power to amass wealth from the general population
Theocracy – A form of government structure which is based on or run by a particular religious system/belief
Charter Schools/Voucher System – In our conversation with Stewart these are used within an American framework. Charter Schools are alternate schools requiring no tuition that are run, to some degree, under a local school board, but tend to offer different types of programming or structure than a typical public school. The Voucher System allows for funds allocated to public education to be used for alternate educational systems, such as homeschooling, or tuition for private schools (which may be religious or not)
The Great Awakening – A series of religious revivals that took place between the early 18th century and 1960’s. These movements have typically been defined by a focus on making religion personal.
Historical Jesus – A picture of Jesus that is based on an academic study, considering historical and cultural context, of the person of Jesus rather than a religious interpretation.
 
Resources Referenced:
The Good News Club, Katherine Stewart, 2012
The Power Worshippers, Katherine Stewart, 2020
God & Country (documentary), 2024
The Givenness of Things, Marilynne Robinson, 2015

The Need for a Christian Christianity with Jonathan Rauch

Jonathan Rauch is a contributing writer at The Atlantic and a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution. His most recent book, out this week, is called Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy. We speak with Jonathan about the book, about why he, as a non-Christian, self-identifying atheist, makes the claim that democracy in the United States is at risk if Christian faith is not sufficiently Christian.
Host Todd Wiebe is joined by friend of the show Spencer Capier for the interview. Spencer is a philosophy teacher and is currently the President of the West Vancouver Teachers Association. He is familiar with much of Rauch’s work and writing.
A brief glossary of terms:
Liberal - As in “Liberal Political Party” distinct from as in “Liberal Democracy”. The term “liberal democracy” refers to a form of governance defined by separation of powers. Here the word “liberal” might be considered in light of the aspect of freedom. Power is spread out. Checks and balances are in place and freedom/agency is emphasized alongside individual rights.
“Liberal” as a description of a political party or on the spectrum of “liberal vs. conservative” has a somewhat different meaning. Here it describes a political expression that can be based out of ideas of liberal democracy but can also come to be defined by being progressive or anti-conservative.
When “liberal” becomes an ideology, an “ism” it can become as totalizing as any other ideology.Here is an excerpt from the Hannah Arendt Center for Politics and Humanities: “Liberalism is a version of progressivism: it perceives society as in the process of constant improvement (usually measured by the criterion of equality) and claims to possess the conceptual instruments that make such a change possible. Liberalism believes itself to be both the doer and the supervisor of progress.”
 

Christmas Special 2024

Our annual hosts only Christmas special. Cupboard Master Ken Bell presents his take on a B5-2, using Nocciola, a hazelnut liqueur from one of our favourite local distilleries, The Woods Spirit Co.
We ask one another three questions about Christmas:1. What do you miss about Christmases past?2. What are you glad that is gone?3. What is needed to properly celebrate Christmas?
Our hope is to take the pressure off. The world was not ready for the first Christmas. God is good beyond your readiness or preparation.Merry Christmas to you and yours.
 

Defrocked and Excommunicated with Thomas Jay Oord

We speak with theologian and philosopher Thomas Jay Oord about his church trial and his book Open and Relational Theology. Thomas, who was a minister for many years in the Church of the Nazarene, faced a trial for being inclusive on matters of LGBTQ+ and church participation and blessing. Thomas outlines a theological view that is about love more than it is about traditional concepts of power. This means that he calls for better understanding of what it means that God is all powerful or all knowing.
The story of Thomas’ trial and excommunication can sound almost medieval, but it reminds us that the struggle over proper belief is very much alive today. Individuals and churches are being excommunicated or disaffiliated. Some people are choosing themselves to part company with a church or denomination based on rigid belief or what they see as damaging theology.
Thomas is a regular contributor to podcasts such as Tripp Fuller’s Homebrewed Christianity and continues to write and to direct the Center for Open and Relational Theology.
 
Articles and Episodes Referenced:
“Six Heretics Who Should Be Banned From Evangelicalism” – Relevant Magazine, September 13, 2022 
“Church Fights: King vs. Liquorish” – Rector’s Cupboard, Season 3 
 
Tasting Notes:
On today’s episode we sampled the Iron Buddha Gin and the Black Tusk Smoked Vodka from Squamish’s Raincity Distillery. 

The Changing Nature of Christianity with Rev. Dr. Ross Lockhart

We speak with friend of the show Ross Lockhart about his recent book (and PhD work) called West Coast Mission: The Changing Nature of Christianity in Vancouver.
The book takes an in-depth look at 12 churches and two faith-based organizations in the Vancouver area. It takes up themes that are familiar to almost everyone who has been part of a church in the last couple of decades.
We talk about differences in approach to the “outside world” and how things have changed in regards to how churches relate to society as a whole. There is both consolation and challenge in our conversation. What might real theological change look like as compared with change of style or strategy?
Ross is the Dean of St. Andrew’s Hall, the Presbyterian Church in Canada college at the University of British Columbia. Ross is also the Professor of Mission Studies at Vancouver School of Theology, where he teaches courses in practical theology. Ross holds a PhD from Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam and is the author of Lessons from Laodicea: Missional Leadership in a Culture of Affluence; Beyond Snakes and Shamrocks: St. Patrick’s Missional Leadership Lessons for Today; co-author of Better Than Brunch: Missional Churches in Cascadia as well as Christianity: An Asian Religion in Vancouver and editor of Christian Witness in Cascadian Soil. Ross’ latest project is West Coast Mission: the Changing Nature of Christianity in Vancouver published this fall by McGill-Queen’s University Press. Ross lives with his family on Bowen Island, B.C. Ross’s newest book is available now.

All of You is Welcome Here with Elise Girardin

Mental health and matters of spiritual and mental wellness are often topics we address on Rector’s Cupboard and so we were very grateful to speak to Elise Girardin, Executive Director of The Woods Arts & Wellness, a North Vancouver based therapy practice addressing the well being of mind-body-spirit through engagement with nature and the arts.
Elise practices what she calls embodied therapy, helping people find healing and flourishing through connection and creativity. This kind of therapy is beneficial for those who have experienced trauma, those who feel disconnected, those who do not feel like they are flourishing. We highly recommend checking out The Woods and their programs. They offer a variety of therapies, some available virtually, and have sliding-scale pricing for accessibility.
If you’d like some extra credit, Elise recommends the following books on embodied therapy practices and research:
The Body Keeps the Score, Bessel van der KolkYour Brain on Art, Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross

The Particular Approach of Alpha with Shaila Visser

Shaila Visser is the National Director of Alpha Canada and the Global Senior Vice-President for Alpha International. She is the Executive Producer of both The Alpha Youth Film Series (2013) and The Alpha Film Series (2016), and currently holds a position on the Board of the Damascus Road Foundation.
We speak with Shaila about how and why Alpha works and has for so many years. What does it mean to talk about faith, but not prescribe a particular outcome? We also speak about what faith might look like for those who have pushed away from their previous church experience.
For information on Alpha, including finding a course, running a course, or helping support Alpha, you can check out their website.

Religious Moderation with Dr. Aurelian Crăiuțu

Dr. Aurelian Crăiuțu is Professor in the Department of Political Science at Indiana University, Bloomington, and Adjunct Professor in the Lilly Family School of Philanthropic Studies at IUPUI, Indianapolis. He is also affiliated with the Russian and East European Institute, the Institute for West European Studies, and the Ostrom Workshop. Crăiuțu has written extensively about the concept of political moderation and has argued that moderation is the strongest, most intellectually honest, and most radical political position in times of polarization.
Rector’s Cupboard co-host, Todd Wiebe, wrote an article for Church For Vancouver, in April 2024 reflecting on Crăiuțu’s latest work, Why Not Moderation?, in relation to Evangelical culture. Asking questions such as; What are the shadow sides of the calls for “radical commitment” in Evangelical faith? How might religious moderation by the strongest type of commitment?
After publication of that piece, Aurelian Crăiuțu reached out to Todd and asked for a conversation on religious moderation and how it might relate to political moderation. This episode is that conversation.
You may have grown up in a religious culture that demanded or rewarded a kind of fully-sold-out faith. While the appeals of this kind of neither-hot-nor-cold understanding of faith are evident, the dangers and weaknesses are often overlooked. If sold out faith means never questioning belief or leadership, than it is weak, not strong. If sold out faith means seeing people who don’t believe what you believe as obviously misguided or even evil, than it is weak, not strong. Political moderation moves us towards genuine consideration of the other. Christian faith, at its hopeful best, does the same. The concept of the Incarnation is the heart of God moving towards humanity. Faith that is truly strong (moderate) recognizes this call.
If you’d like to read more about moderation, you can find links to Todd original article and Dr. Crăiuțu’s book above. If you’re really keen about even more writing about moderation, you can also check out Todd’s other article about it, written earlier this year, in Evangelically Departed.
We hope you enjoy the conversation!

Host Only: Summer Recommendations

As we close season 5 of Rector’s Cupboard and begin summer, Rector’s Cupboard hosts, Todd, Amanda, and Allison have gathered to talk about what is on our summer reading/watching/listening lists this year that we think you might find interesting. We hope that you are able to find time for beauty and rest and entertainment this summer and we will be back in the fall with season 6!
Rector’s Cupboard Recommendations:
Music:
Outlaw Festival – taking place at the Gorge Amphitheatre in George, Washington, featuring Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, and John Mellencamp
Shows:
The Bear, season 3 – Disney PlusOutlaws – PrimeBlue Lights – Brit BoxPlant Earth 3 – PrimeTaskmaster - Brit Box
Books:
Take What You Need – Idra NoveyReading Gensis – Marilynne RobinsonA Commentary on Jeremiah – Walter BrueggemannIncarnational Humanism Jens – ZimmermanThe Five Invitations – Frank OstaseskiI’m So Glad We Had This Time Together – Maurice VellekoopDucks: Two Years in the Oil Sands – Kate BeatonGilead – Marilynne RobinsonSmall Things Like These - Claire Keegan

Changing Your Mind About Important Issues with Benjamin Perrin

Benjamin Perrin is a professor at the University of British Columbia, Peter A. Allard School of Law and a senior fellow in criminal justice at the Macdonald Laurier Institute of Public Policy and the author of several books including Indictment: the Criminal Justice System on Trial and Overdose: Heartbreak and Hope in Canada’s Opioid Crisis.
We speak with Ben Perrin about a couple of his books. Ben does a fantastic job of describing challenges of criminal justice and the opioid crisis in Canada. He places himself within the frame of someone who used to believe one way, but changed his view – in his own description, because of his faith.
Ben’s research on the topics is extensive and his books offer a look into the many challenges and considerations. They also offer an example of the positive call of being open to change. It was a privilege to speak with Ben. We think that you will find his insight and example inspiring.
We are grateful as well to open this episode with a conversation with a member of the Reflector Project Board, the non-profit of which Rector’s Cupboard is a part. Tierney has professional experience working with people who have faced the trauma and stigma that Benjamin Perrin writes and speaks about.